Episode # 60
Broadcast Media in the Classroom with Dale Conner
October 29, 2024
About This Episode
On this week’s episode, we are joined by Dale Conner, a teacher from Mason High School, and two of his students, Alyssa & Daniel, to explore the ways their classroom has introduced the basics of broadcast media to the classroom.
Guests
Dale Conner
Dale has been a High School teacher for 30 years. He has taught Journalism (print, on air, online), multiplatform journalism and content creation, social media content creation, sports promotion and storytelling, and sports media production for the last 23 years at Mason High School in Mason, Ohio.
Transcript
Kara 0:00
Hey, is this thing on? Are we recording? Can I get a tech person?
Caryn 0:09
Oh, for the love of Ed, tech
Kara 0:15
Joining us today is Dale Conner, who is a high school teacher at Mason High School, and he has been teaching for 30 years in journalism and multi platform journalism, content creation, social media, content creation, sports promotion and storytelling as well as sports media production. And also joining us is Alyssa, who is a Mason High school senior, and she is the director of the Mason sports radio program. She leads all the content creation, broadcast management and recruitment for their comprehensive sports broadcast program. And also joining us is Daniel, who is a junior at Mason, and he is a broadcaster, designer, content creator and sports broadcast anchor in their media program. So hey everybody.
Dale 1:14
Hello,
Daniel 1:15
hello,
Alyssa 1:16
Kara 1:17
I’m going to start with Mr. Conner first, because I want to know how you decided to become a teacher in the first place?
Dale 1:27
Well, I had the influence of some really good teachers in high school, and it probably took me a while to really to figure out how, just how much of an impact they had. Because just like a lot of things, you sort of learn about those things later, after you’re out. But I was working in the media field for a few years, print journalism, radio journalism, broadcast journalism. I was working in those fields, and I was getting asked on a regular basis to come in and speak to classes in wherever the area I was in. And and I found that, like, I couldn’t wait till the next call came to come visit a class. And I, I was like, I couldn’t get enough of it. I was, I was then starting to basically reach out and say, Hey, let me know if I can come in. And so I just, I visited so many and then I started helping out with some programs, so I was going in and helping. And then one day, the school board member in the community where I live said, I can’t believe you’re not teaching. And I was like, Yeah, I can’t either. I really enjoy it. I can’t believe I like it this much. And so I came home one night, I sat down, I pressed pause, and I said, I think I’m going to leave my job and go back to school and quickly work on pathways that were available to me in Ohio for getting teaching licensure. And quickly sped through that, and actually had a couple job offers before I was even done. So I had to, kind of, I got lucky to work with some college advisors when I was in that program that I was able to get a job before I was even done. They let me kind of come to class wherever I could, because I couldn’t go to some of the day classes. I was already working. And then it just grew from there, obviously, you know, I had to start out teaching a lot of English classes because not everybody had any type of journalism or media. And I enjoy English. I’m, I’m an avid reader. So I always got, I got lucky because I could teach American literature, and I was, you know, I, you know, I think a lot of Teach English teachers kind of prefer that one, because I think our backgrounds from high school are so strong, but, you know, and then, you know, I taught at a school that had a high school newspaper, and, you know, it just, we built a newspaper kind of from scratch, because the old teacher had kind of printed it on a ditto, copy and machine type of thing. And I was like, we’re, if we’re going to do a newspaper, we’re going to do newsprint. And so, you know, I everywhere I’ve been, I’ve taught some form of journalism and media, but since I’ve been at Mason for the last 23 years, it’s been completely immersive. We, you know, we have built the program that Alyssa and Daniel are currently in from what started out as really kind of a just an audio visual class. And we were not complacent. We didn’t want it to just be kind of a place where anything meaningful came of the media that was created there. And I had to wait a couple years to kind of convince the current print journalism teacher to give up the job here at our school because I really wanted to do that. I enjoy print journalism a lot, and I got lucky because she finally said, I’m tired of teaching newspaper. And I was like, well, here I come. So I swooped in and grabbed that and. And it’s just pretty amazing what we’ve been able to to build based on the enthusiasm of the kids. And I think we kind of had a good approach, you know, we listen to them, and we see what they want to do, and then as long as we feel like we can sustain it for a period of time, we’ll dive in, we’ll go the deep end of the pool and dive in and try to pull it off.
Kara 5:19
What does the structure of kind of the media program look like? Because I know that you guys do print, but you also do like live coverage and stuff. If I’m correct,
Dale 5:33
We do live game coverage. So we broadcast live sporting events. We do a pre taped human interest newscast about every five weeks in school that the whole school sees. It’s kind of it’s not like announcement type thing. It’s like human interest stories that we package with reporters and storytellers, anchor people and so forth. We do have print journalism. We have online digital journalism. We have a very vibrant social media content now, with all the platforms, our students are creating, literally content every single day about something that’s going on here at school, typically sports related, because there’s usually a sporting event every night. But a student can take any student in our high school can take our entry level class that we call integrated media. And we changed that title several years ago because collaborative media was really starting to make its way into the journalism world. And we were like, We got to kind of change things. Because originally my class was kind of was called it broadcast journalism. And not every student wants to be a broadcast journalist, but a lot of them do like media. And so we changed the title to become integrated media so that we could encompass all of them and and we even actually, my class sits in the art wing, so sometimes we actually can get some art people to help us out with some things like photography advice or even some digital design I usually do get a lot of digital design students from our digital design class who will make their way to me. But any student can take the Integrated Media and then it’s kind of like the big buffet table. They sample it. They decide if they like certain things and what they don’t like, and if they really enjoy it, they can retake it. They can take it as many times as they want. I have a student right now who today was joking around with kids that he has been in integrated media every semester in high school, and he is in his senior year right now, and he has grown immensely. You know, he started out sampling. He wanted to do something with sports hype, and at the beginning, he didn’t quite know what the heck he was doing. And now in his senior year, he’s turned into quite the producer. Now if that’s the case, if they really do get into it, we do have an advanced pathway for some students to come in and take the leadership role. So we actually have a class called advanced production lab. And those students are students who are invited to be with a grouping of students who are crossover. Like, I don’t want 15 good reporters in one class. I want two or three good reporters, a couple good producers, digital designers, sports broadcast people. So we want a variety of them in that class. So all the programs are represented, and then they help, kind of drive our content production, our schedules, everything. And then we do have the print journalism class, and that is a class where we produce a high school print newspaper as well as an online component. And students have to apply to that class. Students apply. They have to provide writing samples, they have to provide a teacher recommendation, and go through an interview, and then we usually follow up with those teachers, and we find out how good a fit they would be. And it’s kind of like you got positions to fill. You know, we need sports reporters, we need editors. We need designers. We need photographers. We need people who we feel could grow into being editors. So it does require a little bit of maturity, because it is a, it’s not an advanced placement class, but you will do an advanced placement amount of work, so it sort of requires a little bit of a mature approach. But we, you know, the print journalism students, they are very active in our social media channels as well, because we sometimes have something that might occur today that won’t be in our print edition, that comes out in two weeks, but we could go ahead and cover it and get it out, you know, online in one of the platforms. But we also have students who act as interns in another grouping of students that I have that they help us content, manage and populate our actual school district’s athletics website. Most school districts either have something that come out of their athletic director’s office, or they hire some type of service. And while we do work very closely with our athletic director and he’s. Outstanding and working with us, our students act as the managers and content managers for that website that is relied upon by, you know, our community, everybody. So one of the things that our students probably would tell you is the type of production we try to do is where we serve the community in some way, we outsource to the community. We do have, we kind of treat our class as a little bit of a business where we will outsource. And we have done promotional video work photography for businesses in the community that may not be all afford to go out and hire public relations team or advertisers, and we will sometimes come in and do that for them, and then they will either pay us or have some sort of exchange and kind type of thing. So our students do get an opportunity to work with all kind they get to interact with business professionals a lot.
Kara 10:56
Wow. Yeah, that’s really cool. Alyssa and Daniel, I’m wondering why you guys chose to get involved in this class.
Alyssa 11:06
Yeah, so how I got involved? It’s actually kind of a funny story. I was sitting at the pool one day, and it was summer before my freshman year, and and I was like, What am I going to do? Like, what is my purpose for high school? Like, how am I going to get involved? And originally I was kind of thinking of going on the engineering track as what I wanted to do. But then I came across the program, I saw an ad for it on Twitter. Actually, like, some of the students put out a graphic on Twitter saying, like, you know, we’re looking for kids who’d be interested in this and whatnot. So I got in contact with the two boys that were the producers at the time, and I’ve started talking to them over the summer, and I got really interested in, like, what the program had to offer. And so as soon as I enrolled into the high school and everything, I stopped into Mr. Conner’s room, and I was like, hey. Like, I’ve been talking all summer with these boys, like, how can I get started? When can I work a football game? When can I do all of this stuff. So that’s kind of how it started for me.
Kara 12:26
Very cool little go getter. There
Dale 12:30
she is,
Kara 12:34
Daniel, what about you?
Daniel 12:35
So for me, I remember first hearing about it in, I think my English class in eighth grade. I don’t remember a ton of what it was that was three or four years ago, but I just remember them talking about it, especially on the Mason sports radio side, about, like, broadcasting games, commentating, doing things like that, which was already completely up my alley. I’ve been a sports kid my whole life, I used to play almost all of them growing up. And then I got to a point where I accepted that it wasn’t my thing to play, but I still loved, I still love the art of watching and like commentating over it. So I took imi my first first semester of freshman year, just to kind of see what a little bit of an intro of that would be. And then I met some people. Just First off, the people in this program are absolutely amazing. I met Mr. Conner. I met some guys who are now graduated, who were the leaders of sports radio. And it’s like, we, like, instantly clicked. I had already had some media experience. I had some, like, a social media account that I would post, like, football stuff and things like that on, which was already giving me a bit leeway going into it, of like, some experience. And then I just decided to just join this, this little program. And it turns from, you know, me doing a camera at a volleyball game, and then just continuously, just keep on going, and then out of nowhere, it’s like, Hey, do you want to call this football game on the homecoming night? And I’m like, Absolutely, like, this is, if this is something that I want to continue doing down my career. It’s like, it’s perfect, and honestly, like, I can’t, I don’t think any other school really has a program as good as what Mason does here. Like, I wouldn’t, it makes me so happy to be able to be at Mason and be in a program like this.
Alyssa 14:40
And I’d like to second Daniel on something to like the people here, like I wouldn’t be as involved as I am, or probably even get involved in the beginning anyway, if the people weren’t how they were, like, again me as well. I’ve always been a sports person. Like my grandpa is a coach for a few sports at a local high school. So I’ve been, like, going to baseball games since I was three years old, and so I’ve also always been around it, but I didn’t really realize that that was kind of like my calling. And so these people really made such a, like, welcoming community, and I’ve really learned from them. I probably learned more from the people in these classes than I do from teachers in some of my more core classes. So I don’t think I would be where I am in this program without learning from them.
Kara 15:38
That’s awesome. So how many kids do you how many kids make up, like this whole program? How many of you are involved?
Dale 15:48
Well, the it’s kind of funny, because we we say our sports radio team is small but mighty, because a lot of times at typical, you know, high school, you’ll get a lot of kids at start, and then sometimes they find other things and they go in a different direction. And we’ve been lucky. We maintain healthy numbers, but still, sometimes it comes down to that small percent that just do everything. But the nice thing about it is our leaders embrace that, and they will take, you know, you’ll get we’ll get a student who says, I just want to do photography. And Alyssa will say, okay, I can find a way to use your skill set. And we’ll get them to go to some sporting events and create some hype, or some photograph galleries that she will put out on social media, put on Instagram, and all of a sudden it engages all the parents, the families, the kids, and that’s such a valuable tool for us, because in a world where social media gets used as a divisive tool, we sort of unite because the kids are all excited to see the galleries. So our numbers for the core can will usually broadcasting games. It hovers between eight and 10. But then when you start going up to just more of the content creators and the kids who are making, you know, galleries and hype videos, then that number can grow our integrated media classes that has about 100 students in it. And then our print journalism has about 25 and then this advanced leadership group. It’s about 125 so we got the wrong resources to have about 150 kids, and we, we don’t use them all, because some don’t. Some take the just like all high school kids. They take classes for different reasons, but some will, will? I think one of the biggest areas where we’ve grown is social media, graphic creation, with sports promotions, they see what the colleges and the proteins are doing, so they want to replicate that for our high school. And so the lot of them will get involved there. So they will kind of act as like a hybrid member of the team. We may not see them broadcasting games. We they may not ever work at crew, but they might be the person that’s creating some of the game day graphic type of promotions for us that are getting work done during the school day. And that’s the neat thing about our media class is, and that’s one of the reasons why we change it to Integrated Media. Is there’s 30 kids working on 30 different projects. It looks like the workplace. I try to tell them that our room is not a classroom. It’s a workspace, you know, and obviously it’s a school, and it’s got classrooms, but ours is kind of a workspace, because we do like to be up and moving around and, you know, so we do have the raw resources for a lot of students, and we want them. We want as many involved as possible. In fact, we have one of the most unique situations that we’re getting ready to launch here maybe in about two weeks, but we have a student who likes sports but who also happens to like weather. And we’re like, he’s like, how can I get involved in sports radio? And he’s like, I don’t want to broadcast games, but I want to do something with weather. So we’re going to start doing a Friday night weather forecast that we’re going to put out on our channels. So as people are planning for Friday night football, they know if they should wear shorts or bring a jacket. And so we’re going to be able to take his desire to learn about meteorology. In fact, I took him, I got him a shadowing opportunity with the National Weather Service, so he could go, kind of see how they do their thing. And so now he’s going to, we’re going to do something brand new. And that’s kind of the way Alyssa and Daniel are. When they see somebody who says, I want to be involved, but I want, can I be involved in a certain way? They’ll rack their brain on, how do we get them? How do we how do we do this? How do we get this kid who wants to do this involved? And that’s that is, you know, like Daniel and his podcast, he wanted to do a weekly sports talk show that centered around our teams. And, you know, the kids all love to talk about professional sports and national level sports. Like, that’s a no brainer. They see that on TV all the time or on the radio ESPN, but they wanted to personalize it more. For our school audience. And so they’ve done that. And there again, it’s the students had an interest in it, and we hadn’t been doing podcasts. And so we said, well, then it’s time to start. So they, they, it’s, it’s all driven by them. And so we’re lucky. We have some, we have the classes and not, you know, I think one of the things we like the most is when we start to see the students take it the class that second time, then we know there’s an interest. So we sort of chart them. We kind of, you know, track them a little bit, because if they take it a second time, and there’s clearly an interest in pursuing something a little deeper, and for some of them, it’s broadcast journalism. We do have. We’re very fortunate. Our broadcast program here is very good. The students, they’re 100% in charge of it. The human interest stories are excellent. It’s produced just like you would see on television news. In fact, our local news media often uses our students for activities and visits them and has them come down to the studios here in Cincinnati area, but it’s very well done. So we do get a lot of students gravitate toward that direction. In fact, that’s what we’re working on right now in our entry level classes, is reporting and storytelling.
Kara 21:16
Teachers, you can now earn contact hours toward grad credit for listening to the podcast.
Caryn 21:21
Visit for the love of edtech.org, for more information,
Kara 21:26
that’s really cool. Is there a place to check any of this out?
Dale 21:30
Yes, we have NBC YouTube. Okay, our mason sports radio. We stream our games on on our NBC YouTube channel, that’s where we stream our games, but also on our mason Sports Radio social media channel. Some nights when we aren’t going to bring a video crew to a game, we will still live tweet it or exit whatever it is now, but we’ll still live communicate it so that people can, you know, stay up with the game and the results. And we usually have a photographer at the event taking pictures too. And sometimes they’ll, you know, send out a picture from the, you know, celebration type picture if they win the game or what have you.
Kara 22:06
That’s awesome. So many great like, life skills for your future of success. Um, I’m, I’m curious, from a listen, Daniel, kind of, what would you say? Besides, maybe you’re like, I don’t know, finding your little pot, our crews of people, um, what do you think that being involved in this program has meant to you or done for you? I guess personally,
Alyssa 22:38
it’s almost like a very hard question to answer, because there’s so many answers to it, at least for me. But, like, obviously, finding my people is, like, the biggest one, but I mean, it’s just taught me, like, just different things about myself, like, it’s helped me kind of break out of my shell, like I’ve always grown up as kind of a shyer kid, like afraid to speak my piece or whatever, but like being in this class with all these people, it teaches you to really have good communication skills, because half of the stuff wouldn’t be possible without communicating with people, especially with like, the size of the group that we have. So it’s really taught me a lot of good communication skills, teamwork skills, and that even if you aren’t like, perfect in one skill, you can still rely on people to do like, fill in those other areas that you might not be as good at, so you don’t have to be great at everything to like run the program. So
Kara 23:49
I love that. What about for you, Daniel,
Daniel 23:53
I think something that I’ve especially been improving is self management a lot, because something Mr. Conner is big on is like, he will help you if you need it, but 90% of the time, if you want to do something, you’re doing it yourself. And sometimes it can be a big learning curve. Sometimes you got it immediately. But like, for example, we’re doing a broadcast, like a football game, and it’s 30 minutes away, or something like that. It is just us, the the students setting it up, running it. If there’s a problem, we have to fix it ourselves. And it, it teaches you how to, like, not, not be dependent on just leading back on somebody, and just saying, hey, there’s a problem. Can you help fix it? It’s more of there’s a problem. We gotta work together as a group of us, three, four, whatever, whoever’s maybe doing that game to fix it. Like there’s been, there’s been many broadcasts where it’s like, we’re halfway through and then, oh, something happens. And you have to communicate as a. Group and try and fix it and do stuff like that, and then, like, I know mister Conner mentioned earlier, me and one of the guys in our APL class, we do a podcast together, kind of previewing the football games and stuff that is completely us. We we recorded ourselves, we edited ourselves, we posted ourselves, and it it. I think it’ll help us a lot more once we get in those farther stages of life where we you know, there is no teacher, there is no something like that. It’s just us, and we are having this knowledge already, or at least working on it now, to be able to know that we’re, we are capable of doing things like that.
Kara 25:45
Yeah, that’s fantastic because, yeah, you guys are.
Dale 25:49
They’re phenomenal problem solvers. They, they, I don’t care what anybody says about our teenagers of today. These kids are problem solvers. They are enthusiastic. They they make mistakes, but they own up to them. But Daniel’s right, I actually purposely stopped going to all the games a couple years ago. I used to go to a lot of the games. I’d be in the booth with them, and I found myself wanting to stick my nose in where I thought they could solve it. So instead of going in the booth, I’ve shown up at games and they don’t even know I’m there, or I’ll go down on the sideline and watch the game, because they don’t need me. And it’s great to be needed, but not in this way. It’s a good sign that they are problem solving. And they do encounter things, and they encounter, sometimes adults at these athletic events who they have to work out resolutions with them because of spacing or electronic ability or something like that, in a press box where they have to work with them. And it’s It’s amazing all the compliments we get back from other schools saying it was a pleasure to work with your students, and then that’s like the ultimate confirmation for me, because whether the broadcast was good or not. I mean, I’m glad, I’m glad if it’s good, but I’d I like it when I hear them say, we have great people.
Daniel 27:16
Yeah, I want to add it that a little bit. What probably my favorite part about being in sports radio is seeing the people like watching it. Like, obviously, you look on YouTube while we’re while we’re broadcasting, and you see how many people are watching it, but then you’ll have a moment where somebody is on social media and they tag us and they’re like, we’re across the country, and we’re able to watch our grandson or something like that play in a varsity football game because of us, because of the stuff we do and that that really, that’s probably my favorite thing about it, is seeing how it really is affecting people and and how, like, you see the stuff in NFL and things like that, and it’s Like, we’re able to kind of do that same stuff, and because you’re somewhere far away, you can’t go to the game most of the time. You’re going to have to rely on, like a phone call after with that with them and see how it went. But now, with the things that we’re able to do, they’re able to just watch it live and seeing them communicate to us how much they appreciate it. It really, it just means a lot to us.
Alyssa 28:26
Yeah, and another thing too, is like it might the compliments and things might not even come from our just our mason, like fan base or like family. There’s been times where I’ve been broadcasting where there’s a grandparent from the opposing school and they’ll come up to us and be like, we watch your coverage like, anytime you guys come and your team is playing our school, we always watch and stuff like that. When people from like other schools recognize your work is also very meaningful, because it’s we’re not just serving it for the people in the Mason community. It can be from people in like the Greater Cincinnati area as well. So
Kara 29:13
I hope you guys know how awesome this is and the opportunity that you have, seriously,
Dale 29:20
Yeah, well, it’s driven by enthusiastic students. They they, they’re awesome to work with. We are very lucky. You know, Daniel and Alyssa both alluded to the people before them, and the people before them had people before them, and it’s just, we’ve been so lucky to have so many students just get invested, not in just the physical work, but they invest the part I think I like the most, just how much they care about seeing the other people get built up to be in positions to take over, when, when they leave in
Kara 29:55
in wrapping up our conversation, I am curious for. Alyssa, Daniel, what, what do you hope to do in the future?
Alyssa 30:06
Well, for me, I’m currently a senior in high school, so I’ve been, you know, really working hard to get those college applications in. So my future hopefully looks like majoring in sports marketing, I really like to hopefully get an internship one day with, like a professional team. I’ve done some shadowing already for the Cincinnati Reds, but to really get an internship and a more in depth experience with them while I’m in college would be great, and then hopefully get a job for them after college. Very cool. Yeah,
Daniel 30:44
I haven’t really thought that far.
Kara 30:47
Wasn’t sure if it was like media related, if you thought you would pursue that in the future or not. Obviously,
Daniel 30:53
yeah, if I if in the future I can be working in an environment like this. So like, in the same kind of realm of media or work that would that would be awesome, like that. That would be a dream being a junior. Now, I probably do need to start thinking more about after high school, college and things like that, but just haven’t gotten there yet.
Kara 31:18
Yeah, and that’s okay. That is okay. I was just curious. Well, I got one more for you, because I am curious too. If, if there was a teacher out there in in the ethers listening, that was like, Man, I wish I could create something like that for my students. What would be your best advice for like, where to even start?
Dale 31:47
Start with what you have like, because it, yeah, it can be costly. And I think a lot of teachers do have ideas for things, and then they get told about the dollar figure, and they then avoid it. It like becomes an obstacle. And you’d be surprised our program, and we are fortunate, very fortunate school, and we have a lot of great, supportive programs, but we operate on a shoestring technology budget for like, pieces of equipment. Because I don’t, I do not get big, huge cameras and big pieces of equipment on purpose, because that intimidates students and when, because they, if they have to carry more equipment around, I don’t think they’ll do it. They, they it’s they’ve already got enough on their plate. And if they have to go cover a game and take five or six different cases of equipment. I think they might say, this is this is a pain, and I don’t want to do it anymore. So we have streamlined it. So if I’m a teacher that says I want to start some sort of broadcast program, I would say, start with what you have. And right now, you have people that’s important. You got to have them. You have to have some enthusiasm for it. And then when it comes to equipment, the phone. You know, I know there’s all this talk about get rid of the phones in the classroom, but you can also use those phones for good. And my students actually have started doing some of their pieces with using their phone technology. And for a few extra dollars, you can buy add ons, you can buy a phone tripod, you can buy a phone microphone and, and I think schools are starting to say, if you can’t beat them, join them when it comes to social media and media. So one great way to do it is create your own craft the narrative yourself. Be in charge of your narrative, and so use what you have and and you know, you’d be surprised what you could do with a small investment, sometimes maybe fundraising or what have you. And we have done that. We have volunteered at festivals and things like that to help put some money in the bank to make purchases. In fact, our sports radio program right now is using borrowed equipment from a local cable access provider, who we work with very closely, to provide them with students to work in broadcast games. So sometimes they return a favor by letting us borrow some stuff. But I wouldn’t be too intimidated by the obstacles. You know, if there is a roadblock, go around it, don’t try to knock it over. And so we just, I know, and I do, we talk to schools almost weekly who are either have a program or are starting a program, and they ask us those questions. And we do see some schools who will go make massive investments in media studios and so forth. But I’m not sure they have a vision for what they want to see produced out of those they put the studio in and then say what’s going to happen next, and maybe they need to decide on what we want our outputs to be. Take the phone out of your pocket right there. You can start there and go on Amazon and buy a $9 microphone. And a $7 phone tripod, and all of a sudden you’ve got the ability to tell stories. You may not have CBS 60 minutes in ESPN quality, but the fundamentals of storytelling are the same, no matter what kind of technology and and because the number one resource are students, that’s your your human resource. You need them and and they love media right now, and I think they probably always have, but they definitely love it. Yeah,
Kara 35:27
I just love it. Thank you guys. So much.
Dale 35:29
Thank you.
Caryn 35:30
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope you found our discussion interesting and insightful. Don’t forget to check out the show notes on our website, where you’ll find more information about today’s guest resources we mentioned, and information on earning contact hours for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please
Kara 35:47
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